Comments on: Clinton’s Crushing, Apocalyptic Victory http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/ Mon, 04 May 2009 20:16:06 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: timhilton http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-229 timhilton Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:33:19 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-229 Mike - good column you posted there. I was just having that conversation with my brother last week. It's hilarious to me to hear Obama people talk about how evil the Clintons are, because that's what Bob Barr, Ken Starr and the rest of the right wing conspiracy have been saying for about 15 years now. Mike - good column you posted there. I was just having that conversation with my brother last week. It’s hilarious to me to hear Obama people talk about how evil the Clintons are, because that’s what Bob Barr, Ken Starr and the rest of the right wing conspiracy have been saying for about 15 years now.

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By: Hilkin http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-211 Hilkin Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:59:55 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-211 And then I stay home on election day. And then I stay home on election day.

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By: Ben Keeler http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-210 Ben Keeler Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:51:06 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-210 Or the Superdelegates might just pick her. Or the Superdelegates might just pick her.

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By: Hilkin http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-197 Hilkin Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:37:06 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-197 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120104819435508233.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120104819435508233.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

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By: timhilton http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-196 timhilton Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:31:47 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-196 http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html Look, she's winning the popular vote by 4 hundredths of a percent if you make up a bunch of numbers from caucus states and count the states that don't count. Seriously, though, that's enough for the Clintons to go on. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

Look, she’s winning the popular vote by 4 hundredths of a percent if you make up a bunch of numbers from caucus states and count the states that don’t count. Seriously, though, that’s enough for the Clintons to go on.

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By: Steve Wieland http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-194 Steve Wieland Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:01:24 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-194 Well you're stupid. Well you’re stupid.

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By: smahieu http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-193 smahieu Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:42:35 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-193 I think it's a little presumptuous to say that he "wins among the general electorate." What's disturbing is that he lost in in the big democratic states by 10+. He can win the over the 5000 voters in the primaries in Alaska, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Alabama, etc., but there is less than zero chance he can prevail there in November. Barack Obama cannot win the presidency if the Democratic base is not behind him, including the "old Democrats" to whom you refer - do you know what kind of numbers old people vote in? Additionally, he needs to appeal to the lunch pail / blue collar voters, because if they vote for McCain in any large numbers, it's all over and Obama is back to his day job. Those voters have not embraced him yet, so he has some work to do. My point was there is no excuse (and no one with any sense can make a serious argument) for Obama getting crushed in Pennsylvania at this point in the race (given his enormous advantages noted above). Obama supporters are trying to spin this thing, but it's not happening - Pennsylvania overall was not a good thing for them any. Also, since Obama "closed the gap" in Pennsylvania by 5 or 7 points, does the same standard apply to HRC in North Carolina? I saw a poll where she was down more than 25 points a few weeks ago - if she pulls 5 or 7 points closer, does that make the Obama win insignificant? Nonsensical. I think it’s a little presumptuous to say that he “wins among the general electorate.”

What’s disturbing is that he lost in in the big democratic states by 10+. He can win the over the 5000 voters in the primaries in Alaska, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Alabama, etc., but there is less than zero chance he can prevail there in November.

Barack Obama cannot win the presidency if the Democratic base is not behind him, including the “old Democrats” to whom you refer - do you know what kind of numbers old people vote in? Additionally, he needs to appeal to the lunch pail / blue collar voters, because if they vote for McCain in any large numbers, it’s all over and Obama is back to his day job. Those voters have not embraced him yet, so he has some work to do.

My point was there is no excuse (and no one with any sense can make a serious argument) for Obama getting crushed in Pennsylvania at this point in the race (given his enormous advantages noted above). Obama supporters are trying to spin this thing, but it’s not happening - Pennsylvania overall was not a good thing for them any.

Also, since Obama “closed the gap” in Pennsylvania by 5 or 7 points, does the same standard apply to HRC in North Carolina? I saw a poll where she was down more than 25 points a few weeks ago - if she pulls 5 or 7 points closer, does that make the Obama win insignificant? Nonsensical.

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By: Steve Wieland http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-192 Steve Wieland Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:17:49 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-192 Why is it disturbing? We need someone who wins among the general electorate, independents and new voters. He does all those things. She wins among old Democrats. Steve, my sweaty foot massage offer applies to you as well if Obama actually loses Pennsylvania to McCain in the fall. Why is it disturbing? We need someone who wins among the general electorate, independents and new voters. He does all those things. She wins among old Democrats. Steve, my sweaty foot massage offer applies to you as well if Obama actually loses Pennsylvania to McCain in the fall.

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By: smahieu http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-190 smahieu Thu, 24 Apr 2008 05:29:03 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-190 While I agree that Hillary has very little chance of securing the nomination, I do think it is troubling that Obama fell so flat here considering: He outspent HRC more than 2 to 1; He is widely considered the presumptive nominee; and He had 6 weeks to make his case (remember, the Obama people said he didn't win earlier large primary states because he didn't have time to campaign - and that he was unstoppable when given a few weeks to introduce himself to a state). And don't give me this 20-point argument. The race has been significantly closer for several weeks, and no one in his right mind thought HRC would win by 20 (everyone knew that was a ridiculously soft number from the beginning). I will support Obama in the general, but it is deeply disturbing that he has lost virtually all of the delegate-rich Democratic states, and has done so by significant margins. It is equally frightening that his road to the presidency seems to depend on Virginia, Colorado, and Nevada (3 states that have been blue-ing, but are traditionally Republican) - people in his campaign have acknowledged they are not hopeful about either Florida or Pennsylvania, and are shaky on Ohio too. I readily acknowledge Obama is almost certainly going to be the Democratic nominee, and I also note that he had better win or all your names will be mud in my book. While I agree that Hillary has very little chance of securing the nomination, I do think it is troubling that Obama fell so flat here considering:

He outspent HRC more than 2 to 1;

He is widely considered the presumptive nominee; and

He had 6 weeks to make his case (remember, the Obama people said he didn’t win earlier large primary states because he didn’t have time to campaign - and that he was unstoppable when given a few weeks to introduce himself to a state).

And don’t give me this 20-point argument. The race has been significantly closer for several weeks, and no one in his right mind thought HRC would win by 20 (everyone knew that was a ridiculously soft number from the beginning).

I will support Obama in the general, but it is deeply disturbing that he has lost virtually all of the delegate-rich Democratic states, and has done so by significant margins. It is equally frightening that his road to the presidency seems to depend on Virginia, Colorado, and Nevada (3 states that have been blue-ing, but are traditionally Republican) - people in his campaign have acknowledged they are not hopeful about either Florida or Pennsylvania, and are shaky on Ohio too.

I readily acknowledge Obama is almost certainly going to be the Democratic nominee, and I also note that he had better win or all your names will be mud in my book.

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By: timhilton http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-189 timhilton Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:15:38 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-189 I accept! I would put her chances at < 10%. It serves Obama's purposes to pretend that he's already won. But with Hillary continuing to do this well, I don't think he can legitimately ignore her. I accept! I would put her chances at < 10%. It serves Obama’s purposes to pretend that he’s already won. But with Hillary continuing to do this well, I don’t think he can legitimately ignore her.

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By: Steve WIeland http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-188 Steve WIeland Thu, 24 Apr 2008 03:52:31 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-188 Tim, I have no idea what your first post said, but I will massage your sweaty feet with my bare hands if Hillary gets the nomination. Promise. Tim, I have no idea what your first post said, but I will massage your sweaty feet with my bare hands if Hillary gets the nomination. Promise.

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By: timhilton http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-187 timhilton Thu, 24 Apr 2008 03:01:40 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-187 I thought that Operation Chaos was the secret plan to make us a Top 10 law school... I thought that Operation Chaos was the secret plan to make us a Top 10 law school…

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By: kevindawson http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-182 kevindawson Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:54:35 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-182 my face still burns, but the sting is only temporary as compared to the pain HRC / Operation Chaos / McCain supporters will feel come November. my face still burns, but the sting is only temporary as compared to the pain HRC / Operation Chaos / McCain supporters will feel come November.

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By: Morgan Engling http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-181 Morgan Engling Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:52:42 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-181 I'm donating to Hillary's campaign right now. I’m donating to Hillary’s campaign right now.

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By: Andrew http://firstflooriowa.com/2008/04/23/clintons-crushing-apocalyptic-victory/#comment-180 Andrew Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:49:18 +0000 http://firstfloor.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-180 Brilliant! Brilliant!

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